New "wcoda" magnitude type
New "wcoda" magnitude type request. Need to wait for final design change.
Just chiming in that I like Renate's suggestion of how it would appear in the UI. My last communication with Kris about this she said she had a concern about hand entering the mag algorithm and this would address that.
Ellen
________________________________________
From: Thomas, Valerie I <vthomas@usgs.gov>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 4:24 PM
To: stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>; p.friberg@isti.com <p.friberg@isti.com>
Cc: Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>; Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>; Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu>; eyu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
Hi Stephane and Paul,
That all sounds good. I just wanted to double-reverify we weren't going to start coding without first obtaining concurrence on the solution to be coded. I appreciate your diligence in doing the hard work of obtaining that concurrence:)
Best regards,
Valerie
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Valerie Thomas | Earthquake Early Warning Project Manager, SCSN Manager
U.S. Geological Survey | office: (626)583-7820
Caltech Seismological Lab | cell: (626)646-3898
525 So. Wilson Ave | valerie@caltech.edu or
Pasadena, CA 91106 | vthomas@usgs.gov
________________________________________
From: Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 4:22 PM
To: p.friberg@isti.com <p.friberg@isti.com>; Thomas, Valerie I <vthomas@usgs.gov>
Cc: Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>; Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>; Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu>; eyu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
I concur with Paul. Before any concrete implementation does happen, the plan is to present to Kris
a detailed recommendation from the group that hopefully addresses her concerns. If this is not an
acceptable alternative for her, we will go back to the drawing board.
Best,
Stephane
On 2/17/22 4:17 PM, Paul Friberg wrote:
Hi Valerie,
We haven't fully agreed on a solution yet, but once we do (I think we are close), we will go back to Kris and explain the logic of our solution.
We haven't created a new Mag type for sometime because there really aren't new types yet, just different ways of computing them is what we are thinking.
Regards,
Paul
PS adding Lind to this as I just noticed she wasn't on the thread since the Schema Working Group is small.
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 3:52 PM Thomas, Valerie I <vthomas@usgs.gov> wrote:
Glancing through this thread: Is Kris aware that the decision is to proceed with specifying magalgo, rather than adding a new magnitude type? If so, has she agreed?
I'm hoping to confirm that everyone is on board with the development direction before it begins.
-valerie
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Valerie Thomas | Earthquake Early Warning Project Manager, SCSN Manager
U.S. Geological Survey | office: (626)583-7820
Caltech Seismological Lab | cell: (626)646-3898
525 So. Wilson Ave | valerie@caltech.edu or
Pasadena, CA 91106 | vthomas@usgs.gov
________________________________________
From: Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>
Cc: stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>; Paul Friberg <p.friberg@isti.com>; Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu>; eyu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Thomas, Valerie I <vthomas@usgs.gov>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
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Hi!
I think it should be a drop-down menu, to prevent the user-error typo issue . Currently, netmag.magalgo has no constraints on it (except for length, varchar15). Easiest might be a Jiggle configuration property that specifies a list of allowed magnitude algorithm types and their associated magtype, e.g. MWCODA --> w, TMTS2 --> w, LOCALMAG --> l, RichterMl2 --> l, etcetera. Then, if you select a MAGALGO, the Jiggle dialog box could automatically update the magnitude type (versus having to specify both, adding another possible source of user error).
thoughts?
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 12:44 PM Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu> wrote:
Hi Stephane,
I would need more information/clarification to translate what’s being discussed to Jiggle.
Here are my assumptions and questions:
• Modify “Method” field in “Edit Solution Parameters” > “Magnitude” dialog tab below? Or do we need a new “Algorithm” field? Any relationship between “Type”/”Method”? Currently, this dialog is launched from “Event > Add magnitude…” or “Event > Edit origin…”
• Currently, the “Method” field is hardcoded to “HAND”. Should the options in the list be supplied from Jiggle prop file? The default should be “HAND”?
• What is the name of the new method? Mwcoda or Wcoda?
• It appears Jiggle is checking for method “HAND” in in several places. Does the new method get the same treatment as “HAND” method? For example, change “if hand-method” to “if hand-method or mwcoda”?
• Method/algorithm is inserted to netman.magalgo column in the database.
• When is the change needed?
Thank you.
Jimmy
From: Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:26 AM
To: Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>
Cc: Paul Friberg <p.friberg@isti.com>; Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu>; Ellen Yu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
Thanks Renate. Jimmy, do you see any issue with the implementation of this feature in Jiggle?
Stephane
On 2/17/22 8:17 AM, Renate Hartog wrote:
I think the key was that we need to create a feature request for Jiggle to be able to set the magalgo via the UI.
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 8:14 AM Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu> wrote:
Thanks Paul. I will provide that feedback back to Kris and hopefully we can come to a resolution.
Stephane
On 2/17/22 8:08 AM, Paul Friberg wrote:
Yes, that is correct. I think consensus was to allow magalgo to be specified....since Mag type "w" already exists. That's how we deal with Mww from NEIC and others. The value is Mw, but how it is determined is via a diff algo....so it seems TYPE + MAGALGO identify a given magnitude..
That is what is supported in the magprefpriority rules too.
Paul
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 8:01 AM Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu> wrote:
For some reason, I thought that this request was closed and that we agreed on adding a new magnitude type
but going back through the emails it looks like some people would still rather see this magnitude being
specified by a different algorithm instead of a new magnitude type. Is that correct?
Stephane
On 1/13/22 9:10 AM, Paul Friberg wrote:
Yes, I agree to having Jiggle able to define magalgo for mags entered by hand on the dialog. TO keep it consistent, the magalgo should be from a configurable list in the props file.
Paul
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 8:47 AM Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu> wrote:
I think our current policy is that Mww will still be stored as type "w" in the AQMS database, and magalgo differentiating the NEIC second character.
If we want to be consistent with that policy, then we should not add a new type. We should have magtype = 'w' and have Jiggle allow the user to set magalgo to a different value.
Ellen
________________________________________
From: Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 11:50 AM
To: Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu>
Cc: Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>; p.friberg@isti.com <p.friberg@isti.com>; Ellen Yu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
I think this ends up being due to the NEIC naming different Mw's differently, e.g. Mww, Mwc, Mwb, Mwr (https://www.usgs.gov/programs/earthquake-hazards/magnitude-types). Because Mwc is already taken (moment magnitude based on a centroid moment tensor), I am fine with adding Mwcoda.
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 11:39 AM Yu, Ellen C. <eyu@caltech.edu> wrote:
So ideally -would it be allowing user in jiggle to input magalgo and therefore not introduce new magtype since this is a Mw?
Also maybe we should ask Kris if LLNL software can produce quakeml. I forgot to ask her that last month - will do so now.
If it can - shouldn't we be able to incorporate this into aqms with part of pdl2aqms code?
Ellen
________________________________________
From: Paul Friberg <paulfriberg@isti.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 11:24 AM
To: Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Ellen Yu <eyu@gps.caltech.edu>; Renate Hartog <jrhartog@uw.edu>; Aparna Bhaskaran <aparnab@gps.caltech.edu>; Choi, Jimmy <jchoi5@caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: SCWG: new magnitude type
No concerns at all about this one. This is just modifying the Jiggle code and the DB constraint. It should be easy from the DB side of things.
Regards,
Paul
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:16 PM Stephane Zuzlewski <stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu> wrote:
Dear SCWGers,
Late last year, Kris Pankow requested that a new magnitude type "wcoda" be added to the database (see below).
Ellen mentioned to Kris the alternative of using the "magalgo" field to distinguish this new magnitude from
another Mw but Kris indicated her preference to have a new magnitude type:
Our issue is we will be using an external tool that is not integrated with AQMS. That tool will compute an Mw,coda. To integrate the result into AQMS, we will need to manually insert it through Jiggle. The Jiggle manual magnitude only allows for the predefined types in magtype. It does not have a field to enter the magnitude algorithm, magalgo. It would not be preferable to include a magalgo field into Jiggle since hand typing will be error-prone.
Does anybody have any questions or concerns about this request?
It would require an update on the Netmag.magtype constraint. Regarding Jiggle, I am not sure where it is picking
its list of predefined magnitude types (DB, config file, hard coded) but hopefully it would not require any change.
Thanks,
Stephane
Hi Ellen and Stephane,
We at UUSS have been working with folks at LLNL to implement a methodology to get Mw for small earthquakes. The method is called Mw,coda. We would like to start integrating these magnitudes into our production. For now, we will use software developed by LLNL outside of AQMS, and would like to hand enter the Mw,coda, so that it gets integrated with the event in the database. In the long run, I think our goal would be to fully integrate this within AQMS, but one step at a time. I reached out to Lind about getting "w,coda" added to the magtype within the AQMS schema and she directed me to you. We would like Mw.coda as its own type, so that it can be clearly distinguished from say a waveform based regional Mw.
Is this something that the schema group could consider?
Thanks,
Kris
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov>
Date: Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Schema request
To: pankowseis2@gmail.com <pankowseis2@gmail.com>
Cc: Ben Baker <bakerb845@gmail.com>
Hi Kris
Stephane and Ellen are the Schema Working Group gurus. Do you have their email addresses?
Lind
---
Lind S. Gee
U.S. Geological Survey
345 Middlefield Rd, MS 977
Menlo Park, CA 94025
lgee@usgs.gov
650-329-5656
650-329-4732 fax
________________________________________
From: Kris Pankow <pankowseis2@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 12:32 PM
To: Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov>
Cc: Ben Baker <bakerb845@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Schema request
Hi Lind,
It would be preferable for us to actually have a specific Mwcoda choice in the schema. I don't understand all the details, but it seems that there could also be issues with Jiggle. We want to make sure that we can clearly distinguish mag types in the future and avoid generic labels.
We have not written AQMS modules yet. We are using code from Livermore, and are in discussions with them about how to make this process more routine. Once we get this step going, we can think more about how to integrate into AQMS.
Thanks,
Kris
On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 11:07 AM Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov> wrote:
Hi Kris
I'll direct you to the Schema Change working group, but there was an earlier discussion about Mw when the issue of the NEIC Mwws came up. In this case, I think the working group decided not to add another magtype but rather to distinguish using the magalgo (I may not have that exactly right - but the magnitude algorithm descriptor). Would that work for you?
Also - very exciting to hear this. Have you written an AQMS module for this? We'd be interested.
Best wishes
Lind
---
Lind S. Gee
U.S. Geological Survey
345 Middlefield Rd, MS 977
Menlo Park, CA 94025
lgee@usgs.gov
650-329-5656
650-329-4732 fax
________________________________________
From: Kris Pankow <pankowseis2@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 9:48 AM
To: Gee, Lind S <lgee@usgs.gov>
Cc: Ben Baker <bakerb845@gmail.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Schema request
This email has been received from outside of DOI - Use caution before clicking on links, opening attachments, or responding.
Hi Lind,
We have been working to operationalize getting Mw for small events using the Mw coda methodology proposed by Kevin Mayeda and Bill Walter. One step in this process is to be able to add these magnitudes into the AQMS database. For now, this will be a manual process. However, we will need to add a magtype to distinguish this magnitude from other magnitudes. We have internally been calling these magnitudes Mwcoda. Would it be possible to add 'wcoda' as a magtype to the schema or something similar?
Thanks,
Kris
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Zuzlewski University of California, Berkeley
stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu Berkeley Seismological Laboratory
Office: 510-664-9029 (Thu) 215 McCone Hall # 4760
Fax: 510-643-5811 Berkeley, CA 94720-4760
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Paul Friberg
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CEO/Seismologist
ISTI == Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
Geophysical Services and Software
Visit us on Linked-in: https://www.linkedin.com/company/isti---instrumental-software-technologies-inc-
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Dr. J. Renate Hartog
Manager, Pacific Northwest Seismic Network
Affiliate Associate Professor
Department of Earth and Space Sciences
University of Washington
Box 351310
Seattle, WA 98195
Tel. +1-206-335-6784 (cell)
Office: ATG-145
--
Paul Friberg
-------------------
CEO/Seismologist
ISTI == Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
Geophysical Services and Software
Visit us on Linked-in: https://www.linkedin.com/company/isti---instrumental-software-technologies-inc-
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Zuzlewski University of California, Berkeley
stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu Berkeley Seismological Laboratory
Office: 510-664-9029 (Thu) 215 McCone Hall # 4760
Fax: 510-643-5811 Berkeley, CA 94720-4760
Remote: 209-812-4069 (Mon,Tue,Wed,Fri)
--
Paul Friberg
-------------------
CEO/Seismologist
ISTI == Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
Geophysical Services and Software
Visit us on Linked-in: https://www.linkedin.com/company/isti---instrumental-software-technologies-inc-
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Zuzlewski University of California, Berkeley
stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu Berkeley Seismological Laboratory
Office: 510-664-9029 (Thu) 215 McCone Hall # 4760
Fax: 510-643-5811 Berkeley, CA 94720-4760
Remote: 209-812-4069 (Mon,Tue,Wed,Fri)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Zuzlewski University of California, Berkeley
stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu Berkeley Seismological Laboratory
Office: 510-664-9029 (Thu) 215 McCone Hall # 4760
Fax: 510-643-5811 Berkeley, CA 94720-4760
Remote: 209-812-4069 (Mon,Tue,Wed,Fri)
--
Dr. J. Renate Hartog
Manager, Pacific Northwest Seismic Network
Affiliate Associate Professor
Department of Earth and Space Sciences
University of Washington
Box 351310
Seattle, WA 98195
Tel. +1-206-335-6784 (cell)
Office: ATG-145
--
Paul Friberg
-------------------
CEO/Seismologist
ISTI == Instrumental Software Technologies, Inc.
Geophysical Services and Software
Visit us on Linked-in: https://www.linkedin.com/company/isti---instrumental-software-technologies-inc-
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Zuzlewski University of California, Berkeley
stephane@seismo.berkeley.edu Berkeley Seismological Laboratory
Office: 510-664-9029 (Thu) 215 McCone Hall # 4760
Fax: 510-643-5811 Berkeley, CA 94720-4760
Remote: 209-812-4069 (Mon,Tue,Wed,Fri)