Had some pvp after woe today. Highlights really well why you should get dispelled when you enter the lobby and not have dual clients inside the actual room.
this was 2-3 people fighting and with all the clients / buffs you can get into the room it becomes rock paper scissors / cat and mouse kinda game. No one will ever play HP, get dispelled or assu runs out you go back to lobby. Cant kill someone with what char your on? Change char. Players were bringing gospel / apple / bragi buff fighting and when the buff runs out they leave the room. I didnt get a screenie but the snip of the HWIZ was literaly a sinx player that brought a hwiz to ganba SW so he could try and sonic blow again. Still had some good fun hacking it out but not exactly an idea scenario.
My ideal pvp situation
Ideas that I think that could be okay
Ideas that I do not like
I bet that title made you click so you could come on in and
ez pz lmon squeegee; A card that makes people sleep immune but does not go in headgear My first thought is devs see if there are any ESL cards on the server and if not change it to no sleep and to slot into footgear/???garmet? if yes ask the owner if they care about the change / upgrade. It could also be from a custom mvp :shocking: or from an mvp that doesnt have a card ie gopp / wsm.
If we wont ever have some way of mids[1] we should have a way of getting sleep immune and poo poo hat / sleep immune + another headgear card. We have plenty of stronger cards it seems like a minor thing imo to change ESL or add GOPP to do this. Just gives players more to reach for.
haveing sleep immune and -10% demi is cool.
pls no bully
This suggestion isnt for me. Its for the server. Thank you for your reply though.
I bet that title made you click so you could come on in and
ez pz lmon squeegee; A card that makes people sleep immune but does not go in headgear My first thought is devs see if there are any ESL cards on the server and if not change it to no sleep and to slot into footgear/???garmet? if yes ask the owner if they care about the change / upgrade. It could also be from a custom mvp :shocking: or from an mvp that doesnt have a card ie gopp / wsm.
If we wont ever have some way of mids[1] we should have a way of getting sleep immune and poo poo hat / sleep immune + another headgear card. We have plenty of stronger cards it seems like a minor thing imo to change ESL or add GOPP to do this. Just gives players more to reach for.
haveing sleep immune and -10% demi is cool.
pls no bully
Lets brainstorm about some potential features to manage the inflation that is coming oROs way with new maps and players and activity. Also for visibility/brainfood for the devs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I
Some of the ideas from this video seem implementable and manageable and potentially effective.
Many of the cash shop items effect game flow or cause balance issues. Some of them however seem like a good thing to put in for players to spend thier zeny on. Would Death insurance coupons that cost a sizeable amount of zeny have an end result any different from floating rates? Its allowing players to spend zeny(curbing inflation) to level easier. Even custom weight increase vouchers seem like a super good idea. They each add an alterd amount of extra weight on a specefic char. Then increase in cost is some exponential function to make getting all 5 or 10 of them on 1 char you love playing incredibly expensive but worth it if you play it that much!
Similar to the idea of the increased weight and exponential cost would be to apply the same thing to stats. At first this idea made me want to vomit but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Say something like each char can gain 10 stat implants (you could even do a cool custom lighthalzen quest to get access to the npc) they cost radically more if you get multiples of the same type. If a player wants to gain say all 10 implants in str or int it could cost them a total for 2b or something unimaginably high. But if you diversify between stats it wouldnt be as expensive nor game altering. Say getting 3 str 3 dex 3 vit for example could end up costing you something like 500m. It allows the player to keep building a single char while curbing inflation. At the end of the day what do stat foods do but something like this but without the positive effect on inflation. You are absolutely right to think it will alter builds and metas ect but is that really the end of the world? It feels more positive than gamebreaking to me. Bonus it can also be used to help people correct builds instead of a resseter or some other bogus thing.
Another idea from the video about inflation was a tax system. Yes it talked about taxes on transactions like we have on oRO from vends (go devs) but in another gitlab post I suggested taxes for prime vending spots. Many games have a system like this where if you want to have exclusive rights to a place to do business you have to outbid other players and then the zeny goes to an npc. Sounds like a helluv allot of work to implement but it would be a radical way for players to interact and curb inflation. Imagine every month or quarter the 25 best vending spots around the pront fountain are up for grabs and you get to compete with other market minded players for the privileged to use them exclusively!
The last idea to touch on is high priced npc goods / consumables. Again very similar to the cash shop topic or comparison to floating rates; would it really be that barbaric to just add items that make playing the game easier and curb inflation? My first gut reaction is to do this with ele resist potions. Make it so you can no longer brew them, redem players for the potions / materials they have gatherd, and make them an NPC only item that cost a good chunk. Shift content that can just be farmed, a net positive to zeny count, to a net loss on zeny count. We will get this with speed potions. There is a few ways to change the speed potions "mini game" to help it curb inflation more. Increase the potions cost ofc. Or just make them flat out buyable from an npc so the volume that people use is way higher. The list of items custom and not custom you could put into NPCS to decrease inflation is near limitless. Im sure there are some very clever custom items that wouldn't be game breaking or mandatory but players would still want that would help inflation. +11 stat foods? Idk im not the creative type!
Lets use this git lab ticket to discuses other clever ways of dealing with inflation. I know you all have some sensational ideas! Lets hear them.
@Niriw My figures were very conservative and in a world where the premise is everyone gets an end game piece of gear. Lets double down and say its 1 a day for 600 people. Lets say we follow the trend of an update every 8 months. This still leaves us in a world where 2 years from bio 3s release basically everyone can have a combat knife. In 2 years time we will have 2-3 patches hugal? thanatos? lake? Is it really an acceptable status for content to be irrelevent after 2 years when there is still Odins? Rachel? Ice? Veins? Ni? Morroc? 3-5 years of content to add? The answer to that question is subjective and based in personnel preference but I strongly feel; No. These mvps should mater long past the very liberal figure of 2 years.
Mind you this is still built on the idea that we want everyone that can / wants to equip a combat knife able to get one. Guilds should have to compete against each other in near perpetuity to equip their members with items that give them an edge in mvp and pvm. Responding in part to @Aldric3 I think the concept your afraid of is prevented by my suggestion. No one is going to be selling combat knifes if their guild cant even get enough for thier members. Makeing the mvp uncontested through higher drops allows for less competition, and those that can and do extort those that cant and wont for zeny on rare items. The alternative is those that cant and wont just dont get a combat knife until all the more driven players get their fill. <^ That concept is literally unpreventable. If the big dogs decide they are getting the combat knifes and icepicks from bio 3 your basic farm rogue isnt going to get one until the big dogs dont need them anymore, then it is still left to subjective zeny extortion because you only have probably 1 groupe of people left farming it for PROFIT and not for NEED. Extending the amount of time it takes for "The alternative is those that cant and wont just dont get a combat knife until all the more driven players get their fill." Means players are not extorted by a small groupe of people monopolizing the mvp but instead have to participate in fighting the mvp. The second guild I ever joined on RO was to get access to god items. Should god items have been so prevalent that every player had a set to wear? Or should players have had to work together to get them to share.
Back to @Niriw and one thing that puzzled me about what you said over and over is how players deserve these items if they can farm them at current drop rates. Would reducing the drop rates make players deserve them less? The idea is to make players deserve them more and have to cooperate more to get them. Even on iRO with 2k+ players (no auto traders) you had "the vesper guy" that....???? Camped vesper. There was "the keil guy" and "the thanatos guy". You ended with a situation where once everyone got what they wanted, a small group of players just camped them. 3x Drop rates and less players will exaggerate this effect. Doing something to slow this is in the interest of most everyone but the players that just want their item and to log off. This is not the low rate way!
The real meat of this discussion really rests on how prevalent we want items to be. There is little stopping what @Aldric3 is worried about, my suggestion is meant to make your fear take longer. With lower drop rates players will have to choose to wait or participate in the competition. Even with 3x rates players that dont participate will still pay absurd amounts. The meat; do we want a server where every player can have these rare items relatively quickly? With 1 sniper a day and 1x drops it would take roughly until the last update for our hypothetical 600 combat knifes to drop. Everyone can still get one eventually, just not as fast. This universe seems a heap more rewarding and sustainable than a world where we have 2-3 combat knifes / player by the "last" episode.
(Drops)
This suggestion is to reduce the drop rates of some of the more coveted future mvps, mainly vesper, bio3, valk, ifrit, beezl, wsm, thanatos, naught, and possibly entwien, keil, atroce, and gloom. (rsx/lod???)
All of these mvps introduce vital gear to how we play the game, not equally mind you. First I will note that there are some instances of this currently and things are working fine like bloody axe and coronet. The reason I think these are not an issue and the future items will be an issue is because of larger spawn times and the items they drop being more important.
The idea for this change is to create an environment where the struggle for these items is persistent through the remainder of the servers life. I want the server to foster an environment where the players cannot score a life supply of gear from these mobs by monopolizing them. Let us acknowledge that a few of these items have ways to make farming them at a high rate worthwhile. The best examples would be wsm and valk for adding stat enchants to their armors or over upgrading them. This counteracts them being too common. Other items in the pool like bsb vesper cores combat knifes feel they will be far to common and players can monopolize the mvp to get them at a much higher rate.
Lets try and talk numbers instead of feelings. One of the items on the horizon and soon to be contested and in the spotlight is combat knife. Deciding how rare an item should be is difficult because it is determined by how many players need / want them. Setting a static number to determine a figure for combat knife prevalence isnt ultra scientific as player numbers will hopefully continue to increase but it still will give us a good understanding of what current drop rates vs proposed drop rates could mean. Lets assume we have 600 people that need one and we all want everyone to have one. At current every sniper will 100% drop one and ~ 2 snipers will spawn / day if camped. This creates a situation where all of your 600 players can have an end game weapon within less than a year. This means players continuing to camp this will generate drastically more end game daggers than players could need even accounting for server growth. This means you have pools of players that no longer need this and competition will become nonexistent and monopolization inevitable.
Switching back into feelings and what kind of server we want oRO to be I feel that the scernario described above where an end game mvp is relegated to the useless status in approximately a year is a poor situation. I want items to be rare hard to achive and rewarding to achive. Not something 2-3 people can have 100 of waiting to vend because none of the other guilds need to compete for them anymore.
In my opinion the server will have a longer life healthier economy and allot more fun competing if many of the items similar to combat knife are set to 1x drop instead of 3x. Use that left click to
I have a suspicion that this suggestion will be wildly unpopular. People want to get their 1337 equipment and log off. To staff; when considering what I have said please look past the potential unpopularity of this suggestion, is everyone getting what they want quickly and easily what is best for the future?